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	<title>Comments on: NMR Prediction Now Available Via ChemSpider</title>
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	<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html</link>
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		<title>By: Inchirieri Masini</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-132564</link>
		<dc:creator>Inchirieri Masini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:54:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-132564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I used iwebtool for predictions.Works good]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used iwebtool for predictions.Works good</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Andrew Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-42676</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 03:26:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-42676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi All,
As someone who’s been using, then selling NMR prediction tools for quite a while now, I took great interest in the availability of online prediction through ChemSpider.  As most of you know, there are quite a few commercially available prediction applications available on the market: ModGraph, Perch,  ACD/Labs are commercial outfits that license NMR Prediction capabilities, to name just a few (full disclosure: I work for the latter :) ).  So commercial implications of online prediction aside, I wanted to do a cursory comparison of results of a few simple structures to compare with when I’ve seen experimentally.  I first put in para-Xylene, here’s the shifts that are returned:

6.994 (1, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 6.994 (2, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 6.994 (4, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 6.994 (5, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 2.229 (7, 3H), 2.229 (8, 3H)

So this doesn’t match what’s on the visual output (and I’m frankly not sure how to paste that into a blog comment)…perhaps that’s just a bug, or my misuse of the software.
But, let me try to describe what I see as an output, from aromatic region upfield to 0ppm:
1)	A sort-of quartet ~7.015ppm 
2)	Another complementary sort-of quartet at ~6.9985ppm
3)	A singlet at ~2.23ppm

 I looked up the reported chemical shift (notice I left it as singular, since I see these protons as degenerate, am I naïve?) for the aromatic protons.  The reported shift (solvent dependent of course) ranges from 6.94ppm to 7.06ppm.  A good friend of mine reminded me that you could see the long-range coupling between the methyl and aromatic protons.  But what else?

I suppose I want to make a point here:

If the prediction can’t handle simple structures like para-Xylene, I’d shudder to think of its prediction performance on structures the discerning chemist would use to test its accuracy.   

So why the rant? There are three issues here: 
1)	Sometimes I feel (and maybe I’m simply sensitive to it) that it’s assumed  in some circles that commercial scientific software vendors are the “bad guys,” and that for whatever product there is on the market, there is a viable, free alternative.  As I’m sure my counterparts at Modgraph and elsewhere would attest: we put a fair amount of money (time, resources, etc.) into our prediction applications.  And although ACD/Labs and Modgraph have an ongoing debate as to which of us have a more accurate predictor, I’d say that these commercial results, while not free, provide reasonably accurate results.   When and where we don’t provide accurate results, we strive to improve.  Tony, you can attest to the hard work (10 years worth!) to get the ACD/Labs prediction applications to where they are today!
2)	I noticed an earlier comment to the effect of, “I wish this stuff would have been around when I was studying chemistry.”  No slight to the commentor intended, but I’d personally find prediction results like these to be a detriment rather than a benefit.  
3)	Tony, at what point will negative comments on the prediction  capabilities you’ve exposed lead you to conclude it’s not ready for “prime time?”  You and I both know very well that quality matters, and I believe these prediction capabilities do NOT meet your quality standards.  

I’m welcome to hearing feedback.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi All,<br />
As someone who’s been using, then selling NMR prediction tools for quite a while now, I took great interest in the availability of online prediction through ChemSpider.  As most of you know, there are quite a few commercially available prediction applications available on the market: ModGraph, Perch,  ACD/Labs are commercial outfits that license NMR Prediction capabilities, to name just a few (full disclosure: I work for the latter <img src='http://www.chemspider.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).  So commercial implications of online prediction aside, I wanted to do a cursory comparison of results of a few simple structures to compare with when I’ve seen experimentally.  I first put in para-Xylene, here’s the shifts that are returned:</p>
<p>6.994 (1, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 6.994 (2, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 6.994 (4, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 6.994 (5, 1H, ddd, J=7.936, J=1.630, J=1.198), 2.229 (7, 3H), 2.229 (8, 3H)</p>
<p>So this doesn’t match what’s on the visual output (and I’m frankly not sure how to paste that into a blog comment)…perhaps that’s just a bug, or my misuse of the software.<br />
But, let me try to describe what I see as an output, from aromatic region upfield to 0ppm:<br />
1)	A sort-of quartet ~7.015ppm<br />
2)	Another complementary sort-of quartet at ~6.9985ppm<br />
3)	A singlet at ~2.23ppm</p>
<p> I looked up the reported chemical shift (notice I left it as singular, since I see these protons as degenerate, am I naïve?) for the aromatic protons.  The reported shift (solvent dependent of course) ranges from 6.94ppm to 7.06ppm.  A good friend of mine reminded me that you could see the long-range coupling between the methyl and aromatic protons.  But what else?</p>
<p>I suppose I want to make a point here:</p>
<p>If the prediction can’t handle simple structures like para-Xylene, I’d shudder to think of its prediction performance on structures the discerning chemist would use to test its accuracy.   </p>
<p>So why the rant? There are three issues here:<br />
1)	Sometimes I feel (and maybe I’m simply sensitive to it) that it’s assumed  in some circles that commercial scientific software vendors are the “bad guys,” and that for whatever product there is on the market, there is a viable, free alternative.  As I’m sure my counterparts at Modgraph and elsewhere would attest: we put a fair amount of money (time, resources, etc.) into our prediction applications.  And although ACD/Labs and Modgraph have an ongoing debate as to which of us have a more accurate predictor, I’d say that these commercial results, while not free, provide reasonably accurate results.   When and where we don’t provide accurate results, we strive to improve.  Tony, you can attest to the hard work (10 years worth!) to get the ACD/Labs prediction applications to where they are today!<br />
2)	I noticed an earlier comment to the effect of, “I wish this stuff would have been around when I was studying chemistry.”  No slight to the commentor intended, but I’d personally find prediction results like these to be a detriment rather than a benefit.<br />
3)	Tony, at what point will negative comments on the prediction  capabilities you’ve exposed lead you to conclude it’s not ready for “prime time?”  You and I both know very well that quality matters, and I believe these prediction capabilities do NOT meet your quality standards.  </p>
<p>I’m welcome to hearing feedback.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: hko</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-40982</link>
		<dc:creator>hko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 13:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-40982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Proton prediction of benzene.
To the surprise of all ?  1H spectrum of
benzene shows eighteen lines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proton prediction of benzene.<br />
To the surprise of all ?  1H spectrum of<br />
benzene shows eighteen lines.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hko</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-40916</link>
		<dc:creator>hko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 09:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-40916</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[H-Prediction of 1,4-dichlorobenzene.
Should I forget my basic NMR-knowledge ???
Calculating proton shifts of 1,4-dichlorbenzene,
I found a multiplet pattern with EIGHT lines.
That  is more confusing than enlightening.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H-Prediction of 1,4-dichlorobenzene.<br />
Should I forget my basic NMR-knowledge ???<br />
Calculating proton shifts of 1,4-dichlorbenzene,<br />
I found a multiplet pattern with EIGHT lines.<br />
That  is more confusing than enlightening.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hko</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-40742</link>
		<dc:creator>hko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 00:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-40742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Prediction of 4-methoxybenzaldehyde.
Sorry. Anisole was not a convincing example for missing
symmetry averaging. See however predicted shifts for
4-methoxybenzaldehyde. I can find four shifts at 7.957,
7.966, 7.033, and 7.023 ppm for the phenyl protons. 
Is this due to missing symmetry averaging ? Calculated
spectrum shows only a crude similarity compared to the
real spectrum.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prediction of 4-methoxybenzaldehyde.<br />
Sorry. Anisole was not a convincing example for missing<br />
symmetry averaging. See however predicted shifts for<br />
4-methoxybenzaldehyde. I can find four shifts at 7.957,<br />
7.966, 7.033, and 7.023 ppm for the phenyl protons.<br />
Is this due to missing symmetry averaging ? Calculated<br />
spectrum shows only a crude similarity compared to the<br />
real spectrum.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: hko</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-40478</link>
		<dc:creator>hko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 23:59:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-40478</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[H-NMR prediction of anisole.
Seems to be a little bit odd to find five different
shifts for the phenyl protons in anisole, if symmetry
averaging is not taken into account.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H-NMR prediction of anisole.<br />
Seems to be a little bit odd to find five different<br />
shifts for the phenyl protons in anisole, if symmetry<br />
averaging is not taken into account.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: David Bradley</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-40308</link>
		<dc:creator>David Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 08:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-40308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wish stuff like this had been around when I was studying chemistry...would&#039;ve made life so much easier ;-)

db]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish stuff like this had been around when I was studying chemistry&#8230;would&#8217;ve made life so much easier <img src='http://www.chemspider.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>db</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Web as platform: Why I like web services #223 : business&#124;bytes&#124;genes&#124;molecules</title>
		<link>http://www.chemspider.com/blog/nmr-prediction-now-available-via-chemspider.html/comment-page-1#comment-40269</link>
		<dc:creator>Web as platform: Why I like web services #223 : business&#124;bytes&#124;genes&#124;molecules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 03:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.chemspider.com/blog/?p=532#comment-40269</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] today I pointed to nmrdb.org on Friendfeed. A few minutes ago I saw a post by Antony Williams that uses the web services provided by nmrdb.org to provide NMR functionality on [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] today I pointed to nmrdb.org on Friendfeed. A few minutes ago I saw a post by Antony Williams that uses the web services provided by nmrdb.org to provide NMR functionality on [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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